a circle drawn / a circle erased

 za-zoom gathering: the circle drawn, the circle erased

may 30, 2025

Hamid's talk:

Greetings to those who joined us after we had already started zazen. Today, I would like to read another koan I briefly mentioned in the group page. It's from the collection "100 Koans of Master Kido," entitled "Everyday Exposed," from which we discussed two koans last week. This is case number 23. I will share the koan and a brief commentary that comes after the case. We will then say a few words about the koan and see if we find ways of relating to it.

It starts, like in many other stories, with an exchange between a teacher and a student. Koans are encounter dialogues. Often, they are about exchanges between a teacher and a student, at times they involve monks practicing together and at other times sometimes they appear between peers, accomplished teachers probing together the depths of the teachings. Although they are perceived as nonsensical and enigmatic what they are actually about a conversation about the dharma. That's what koans are. They are maybe cryptic but a conversation is what they are about. The conversation takes place between people who practice, between people engaged in the way, under the way, or are on the way to the way.

So, one of the monks had just come back from his pilgrimage. That notion of pilgrimage also comes up in many of the koans. A celebrated one is about "not knowing," where the teacher asks a monk, "Where are you going or, what is the purpose of this pilgrimage you are about to start" And the monk answers "I don't know." And the teacher replies; " this is the closest or most intimate." That one starts with a monk going to a pilgrimage, and in this one, a monk is returning from one.

One of the monks had just come back to the monastery after a long pilgrimage when Master Shiki asked him, "How long have you been away from this place?" "It has been almost eight years since I left, your reverend."Shiki said, "What have you accomplished? "The monk drew a circle on the ground."Is that all? Is there nothing beside it?", asked the teacher. The monk then erased the circle, bowed, and departed.

Master Kido's comment: "If you don't have a messenger boy at home, you cannot be a gentleman."And the commentary from Master Hakuin: "If your view is the same as your teacher's, then you're only half as good as your teacher. If your view surpasses that of your teacher's, then you are capable of passing his teachings on." Then there are these other notes: "Since I'm already too old, from now on, would you take care of things." Then there's a note that says something about the meaning of the circle.

One of the things we notice is, first of all, all these koans, in some way or another, are about testing, verifying someone's understanding of the teachings, the depth of their realization. Then, usually the teacher asks a straightforward question, but immediately sets up—in the koan technical languag- a trap. Often, the student falls into the trap. But not this time, to the question—he's been away for eight years on a pilgrimage to study, to practice, to learn—it's a very interesting exchange, the monk displays a deep affinity with the teachings. He does not say anything. Again, we talked last time about the non-preaching, the teaching without words, and the two koans that we looked into were about that. But here he's not silent; he is silent, but not inactive. As to the question, "What have you accomplished?" he just draws a circle on the ground.

Now, a circle in Zen is a symbol. In Japanese, a circle is called ensō, and there are many calligraphies of famous masters who have drwan these ensōs. An ensō or a circle is a symbol of one's spiritual realization or maturity. It's all about how you draw the circle. It has several qualities for it to be an ensō. Most of the times it's just in one single strike, except one celebrated Master, Master Bankei, who did it in two strokes. So it's just with one stroke of the brush. The other is that you cannot correct it. You cannot modify it. You spill it all out in one go, as it were. So it symbolizes your understanding, your enlightenment, and particularly a circle in Zen teachings represents one's realization of kū or śūnyatā, or emptiness, or the void.

So it's very spontaneous, and it's something you do with as the discriminating mind is at rest. It's expressive but non-verbal. It's a pointer. But the way you do it is very different to anyone else, and it shows something about the depth of your practice, the depth of your realization. As I said, you cannot go back and say, "Well, I'm not happy with this part. I will redo it." You can't, there is no redoing. There is no correction. It just comes out, you spill it out. So it's an expression of the moment, and it's about the total presence of the one who is executing or drawing the circle to that moment and in that moment. The moment of you drawing the circle out of the moment coincides with the moment drawing you into the circle.

So what he's suggesting is that he has some glimpses into emptiness, into śūnyatā, and he shows that by drawing a circle on the ground. When I reflect on this, I see a parallel between how one executes or how one draws an ensō—the circle that symbolizes one's realization, and the way one responds to a koan, the practice has similarities. Because when a teacher asks or presents us with a koan, there should be no gap between what has been asked and us reflecting on it. We cannot ask, "Give me some time. I want to think this over." Whatever comes after reflection or after thinking is not accepted as an answer. The answer has to be immediate. Immediate in the sense of spontaneity, presence to the moment, coming from what in Zen is called mu-shin, no mind, or the mind that is not operating from where it usually operates, from the place of its mooring: concepts, ideas, views, discriminating and conceptualizing thoughts. That's called mu-shin, no mind. It's not that there is no mind, but it's a mind that is free from whatever fetters the mind. So, there is this similarity between the drawing of a circle and a koan. Here we have one unfolding within the other.

So, then, the master takes it that the student is suggesting he has some understanding of śūnyatā or emptiness, which in Zen is the realization that nothing has an enduring, permanent self-entity or substance. It's not that there is nothing, but there is nothing that has a permanent self-nature, an enduring sense of self. This is the fundamental teaching of Mahayana Buddhism. So then, the master probes further and asks the monk, "Is that all? Is there something else?" This time, the monk erases the circle. So, after eight years of study, all he can do, or all he does, is to draw a circle, and when asked, "Is that all you've learned?" he then erases the circle. On a surface level, that does not make much sense. It's not like someone showing much about their understanding. Yet, the gesture, the double gesture of this monk, has been praised.

First of all, instead of entering into a conversation about what is emptiness, he immediately draws a circle, he draws an ensō, he shows it, he manifests it in the oneness of body and mind. Then when the teacher asks, "Is there something else?", what he does is to erase the circle which is the erasing of his presentation, of his understanding.

Now, it's interesting to compare this story with another story, one of the earlier Zen stories I read about. It's about a scholar who had studied a great deal about the teachings of Prajñā or the emptiness teachings that are in the Hannya Shingyō, in the Heart Sutra. This is the most important sutra in Zen. The scholar comes to this famous master, and presents himself with these words: "I have come to see you with empty hands." Now, him coming forward and saying, "I'm coming with empty hands," means he is presenting or demonstrating to the master that he has realized emptiness. Symbolically, by presenting his empty hands he is showing his realization of emptiness. Hearing this the master says, "Drop it." So here, the scholar falls into the trap, and says: "I have nothing, my hands are empty. What is there to drop?" The master repeats again, he says, "Drop that." He says, "There is nothing to drop. It's empty." To which the master then says, "If you are not able to drop it, then take it back with you."

So if we put these two stories back to back, they sound similar, but with one fundamental difference. The first monk, the monk in the koan, as to the question, "Is there something else?" erases the traces of his realization, meaning that maybe there is realization, there is śūnyatā, but there is no person who can have claim to it. The second holds on to his understanding and insists there is nothing he is holding onto because his hands are empty, but then he cannot actually show in some way that he is liberated and detached and free from the teachings of emptiness. So he is holding on to the teachings. The first monk is free from the teachings. He just manifests what the moment requires of him to manifest; demonstrating the teachings. The other carries it as something personal, as his personal understanding, his very own realization. He's attached to it. He's attached to the teachings, to his own understanding of them.

It is difficult not to get attached to the teachings. But the attachment to the teachings is still attachment to what is called the "golden chain." A big part of spiritual practice is about liberating ourselves from what in Buddhism is called the "iron chain." The iron chain is easy to see: all our attachments to objects, sense objects, material things, even maybe relationships, all the things that keep us attached in saṃsāra, in saṃsāric existence. But the golden chain is what we have realized and what we have understood about the teachings. They are much more subtle. That's why it's called golden, but nonetheless, we can still get attached to it, as we can get attached to the iron chain, to the senses, to objects, to material things, to reputation, to a name.

The first monk was not attached to the understanding, was not attached to the golden chain. The second one was. Because he could not see his attachment—usually, this attachment is very subtle and we cannot see it—the master tells him, if you cannot drop it, then take it back with you. Return to your pilgrimage. Start from scratch.

Now, on this point, at the end of this celebrated passage of the Genjōkōan by Master Dōgen says, "Studying the Buddha way is studying the self. Studying the self is forgetting the self. Forgetting the self is to be verified or confirmed by myriad existences." At the end of this paragraph he writes about dropping body and mind—shinjin datsuraku in Japanese is the moment where you're free from attachment to body and mind as concepts. Then he ends by saying, "After enlightenment, no trace of enlightenment remains, and this non-trace continues endlessly." So "no trace of enlightenment" is this gesture that the monk does by erasing the circle that was meant to represent or manifest his realization or enlightenment. He wipes the traces out. No one can see there's someone here who is enlightened. Master Dogen says alone is enlightenment what continues going beyond enlightenment without leaving any trace behind. This is not just him, but it's what is taught in the tradition, both in China and in Japan. Dogen speaks about it multiple times, about how we can develop a sense of what is traceless and endless in enlightenment. He compares it to the flight of a bird in the sky or to the swimming of a fish in the ocean. The bird knows where it is going, but does not leave a trace of its passage in the sky. In the same way, a fish knows where it's going in the ocean, but no one can see any trace left by the fish in the ocean.

The idea is that while we practice with dedication, with effort, over time, whatever realization we may come to is something we need to let go of, we need to forget. It's only by letting go of what we have realized that realization deepens, becomes integrated, becomes embodied in us. It is also based on this understanding that Master Dogen further says, "When a Buddha is a Buddha, he or she does not know that they are a Buddha." Buddha means "the awakened one." So, being awakened is what we need to go beyond constantly. It is based on this that Master Hakuin makes the comment that if a student reaches the understanding of a teacher, he cannot be faithful to his teachings and pass them on to others. The only way he can do that is to surpass the understanding of the teacher. Surpassing the understanding of the teacher means to be in this attitude, or in this mindset, or this disposition of constant striving to go beyond your realization, beyond your understanding. And beyond means make sure you continue erasing.

When I was living in India, you would see posters in different places inviting you to go and listen to a satsang, the equivalent version of a Dharma talk. Usually, you would see a name of a person and their photograph, and the first thing you would read was that such and such a person had attained enlightenment. Because they had attained enlightenment, they were in a position to give a satsang, which means teachings or preaching the truth. So, in Zen tradition, anyone who claims that they have reached or achieved enlightenment shows that they haven't yet learned about the importance of erasing the circle on the ground. That is something I think was transmitted to me directly from my teacher, Master Ryotan Tokuda, because he is someone that when you are in his presence does not have much of an aura. He doesn't display charisma. He seems like a very ordinary person. Over the years I encouraged a few people to go and practice with him in the monastery where we practiced in the South of France, came back saying they enjoyed the experience, but found nothing particular about our teacher. One person said, "I couldn't see anything spiritual about him." So that's the misunderstanding we have, that a person who is realized, who has engaged deeply with the practice, we have to somehow feel it, as they must have an aura, they must have charisma as a result of it. And we think we can be the judge, the measure of that. But going beyond means you wipe the aura, erase the charisma, and become just an ordinary person, someone who embodies the simplicity of the way. Because enlightenment does not leave a trace, if it left a trace, it would mean I am practicing what Master Dogen calls: "no trace of enlightenment remains, and this non-trace continues endlessly." If I cannot do this, then I am stuck with the traces of my enlightenment or realization. And the idea is: if you can't drop it, then please take it back with you.

I think this koan was about that, and I think it's a very beautiful, profound teaching I wanted to share with you today. Thank you for your attention. Now, for the remaining time that we have, if you have any comments or questions, or remarks about this topic, about what I shared with you, the floor is yours. Please go ahead.

group discussion:

Gerry: Thank you, Hamid, for sharing the koan and for your comments on it. Despite the fact that koans are supposed to be not intellectual, the comments help with the understanding. When you put this koan out on the chat last night, I thought—I didn't know the story about the calligraphy and the circles, I'd never come across that. So for me, it was the fact that the circle contained nothing. The circle was empty. It was how this monk portrayed the emptiness that he learned. In his wiping out of that, he was also demonstrating, I think, the emptiness of emptiness, of letting go of emptiness, the fact that emptiness is also empty itself, in itself. But the things that came up during your explanation was I was reading a book this week which you might have read, it's called "A Flower Does Not Talk." You should have read that. Something similar is described about somebody who is enlightened letting go of all these traces, and it's called "the old fool coming down from the mountain." So the enlightened person drops all traces of his enlightenment and becomes the old fool coming back into the realities of everyday life. That sort of confirmed or helped the understanding of what you just said about leaving no traces. I guess it's similar to meeting the Buddha and killing the Buddha, just getting rid of, dropping all traces of realizations that a person might have. I guess a lot of that is also humility, I think, that somebody might have a realization, it's about dropping all of that. I never liked the phrase, but I've read it and heard it often, about "coming back to the marketplace." I don't know where that came from, but about somebody who has a realization coming back to normal life and living those teachings in the marketplace, so to speak. I guess it's all about that too. It's how one applies that realization or awakening into normal life. The things that claim not to be. So thank you very much for the deeper explanation of the background.

Hamid: Thank you, Gerry.

Ahmed: For this very, very powerful story, the koans today were very insightful as I try to hold on to their traces. What came up for me was maybe being in Egypt and seeing how still, until today, people are always looking for truth as desperation continues to build, and it is still profoundly towards those that both hold as much scholarship as they possibly can and present that scholarship with less and less humility as time moves on. It's just so profoundly obvious that it is in this type of letting go of understanding that enlightenment and knowledge and truth cannot be contained, cannot be something that is within the bounds of any of us in the sense that is presented to us in everyday life. I'm thinking more on even on the religious side here where I live, but I think this cuts across all of the different paradigms of life and understanding and knowledge. The comparison of the two koans, especially the second story, really makes the teaching very, very clear. It's just almost impossible, because we let go of even this understanding. How does this become something that can be shared, except in a sangha as we have now? Maybe we need more of them. It is almost impossible to meet this type of person. It's very rare, and we only hear about him through the teachings of Master Dogen because someone who erases that circle after he uses it to describe enlightenment in such a passing way is someone that is very difficult to come across. It's just such a profound reality and seems so necessary at a time where there's so much pain around. This comes up for me because of a lot of things that I think about a lot where I am today with all that surrounds me. So thank you for sharing this.

Rebecca: Hi, good morning. It really touched me very personally, as well. Given I'm 50 very soon, and I've been personally, in my professional and also this part of me, since I... there's always been searching, searching, searching, looking for that golden key, looking for that book, looking for just somebody to give me the rule book and tell me how to be a human being, the best I can. Professionally, as well, I think because of my age now, stepping into more leadership and work and teaching, and I think what I absolutely... it's been very resonant for me in my life this week, being given all the experience I've had in my life, all that I've read, all that I've learned, all of the courses, that I somehow need to be stepping into this very knowledgeable teacher. I just... it's hard to even articulate, the story, I almost feel it on a cellular level of relief, of this is not actually... I can just really step into the present moment and just have the beginner's mind. The beginner's mind came up very strongly as I was hearing. Actually, that is the point. Erase it all, and just be in that moment with the freshness of the beginner. This ego part of me that wants to be this teacher, because I want to help, and the pressure of that is exhausting. And to put that down. So thank you, thank you. It was a big gift for me in my life to take that. Thank you.

Sharon: I always have conflict between wanting to say things and wanting not to say, just as they are, because they were very powerful for me today. But when Ahmed spoke, he's square next to me on the screen, and I live in Israel, and we are, I think geographically, the closest to each other right now. It just came to my mind that if we could put our hands together and draw the circle, intuitively, without fixing it or withdrawing, all together, the circle, and then even, hopefully, erasing it, how much goodness there could be.

Hamid: I guess for each one of your comments, you could say that that's essentially what we are doing here, sitting and practicing and engaging in this conversation. It's at the same time about drawing a circle and letting the circle erase itself. So we are drawing the circle, I would say, and allow for the circle to earase us. The circle is also further symbolism, actually, it's not a circle this time, it's the ring, a ring of the Way, which is also circular, as this practice that has no beginning and no end. We join it wherever we can, and it's not about taking us from here to somewhere, but it's about, as the drawing of the ensō, the circle, being fully present and giving expression to this presence in one way or another. Either by having a conversation, by drawing a circle, by sharing something, by giving something, by listening to someone's pain, each one of those can be a manifestation of that.Actually, this story that I shared with you about someone who's holding on to the teachings, the second story, I'm not sure is a koan. I read it as a Zen story, and the student failing to understand what the master meant by "drop it" was one of the very early stories in Zen that I read, and it really impressed something in my mind. But the first story that's part of this koan, in this form I had not read it before. There are other stories about circles and students drawing the circle in the air or drawing a circle on the ground, maybe we can touch that, that's part of the Blue Cliff Record. But this one, what touched me, was that it was actually mirroring this earlier story that I had, one of the earlier stories about Zen that I had read. It's almost a demonstration of how things can be different. It's a different approach, and what is very touching is that the monk does not say anything. It's just a gesture, but the gesture is so immediate, so powerful, because it is so simple. We often fail manifesting things at a deeper level because we are brewing it in our mind through concepts, through notions. Here is that the profundity comes from something extraordinarily simple, which is just a gesture.Anyone else would like to add something to the conversation?

Ahmed: Hamid, you just said something that sort of made me realize that there's something else about the two stories, is that Dogen said we are already enlightened, enlightenment is here. It just seems that contrast is, the first monk has that realization that there is no need to be enlightened, whereas the second monk is still grasping onto that. "Me, not mine," therefore, we can't let go of it.

Hamid: Right.If you take that as a notion, as we like in Zen, mu-shin (mu means no, or nothing), no mind. The other was displaying, manifesting in that very moment, how no mind operates, how no mind manifests itself. The other was having an intellectual understanding of it. That's the difference. So he was trying from the place of the mind, shin, but all he could do was talk about mu-shin, no mind. The other was immediately and directly m anifesting what no mind is. No mind.This is maybe something we can discuss another time. Maybe it bears also some comparison with dai-shin (dai means great, or big), big mind, that Suzuki talks about in "Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind." Is the mind that sees everything happening within it, which can also be a symbol of the circle, at the same time is empty of any essence and at the same time contains everything.Thank you for your contribution to this conversation. I'm glad that we were together today and we were able to speak about this topic that I think is very important. So, if no one has anything else to add, we will reconvene next Friday, and I hope you will be here for another turning of the circle, or, as we say in Buddhism, another turning of the wheel of the Dharma. Be well, and see you soon. Enjoyable end of the week. Bye for now.

All: Bye.